Interview with Julia
Participant (00:01)
to Parenting While Autistic. I'm your host, Dr. Lana Ferris. I started this podcast to provide support, community, and valuable information to autistic parents. Please consider subscribing to the podcast to stay updated on our newest episodes.
Participant (00:17)
Today is our first ever interview episode and I'm so excited to have our guest Julia today.
Participant (00:28)
I think it would be great to start by introducing yourself
Julia (00:32)
hi. I am Julia Shadkey. I am a licensed mental health provider in Vancouver, Washington.
I've been in practice for three years and I tend to have some kind of candle flame that neurodivergent people seem to be drawn to. I learned that I was autistic at 40.
and I am turning 42 this year. And I learned that I have some ADHD spiciness as well. I learned that at 36.
Participant (01:14)
I know you mentioned that clients seem to be drawn to you as a neurodivergent provider and that you end up seeing a lot of neurodivergent clients.
I've noticed the same thing that I attract a lot of autistic and neurodivergent patients in my practice. And often the patients that I feel the most kinship and connection with, I then later find out that they're also autistic.
What are some of the strengths that you see your neurodivergent clients bring to their life in general or more specifically to parenting?
Julia (01:51)
when we're talking about autistic clients, here's some of their amazing qualities. One,
I can organize things like nobody else. systems to be able to make that happen.
for instance, my son wanted to earn money for his allowance. So I created different lists with step -by -steps you can earn $2 by doing this activity, this certain chore, and
step one, two, three, and four. You have to complete these steps in order to get this. it's all organized And I find that my clients who are autistic and parenting are so good at that. They can really organize their worlds.
to meet their needs and I find that incredible. They also are amazing at finding patterns in world. For example, a friend of mine noticed
and labeled the amount of time that her baby slept was 90 minute chunks and she called them sleep units. So she could predict exactly within a pretty decent amount of time how many units her child was going to sleep and could predict based on when she went to sleep the times in which
her baby was going to wake up.
Participant (03:29)
I noticed a similar thing with my daughter. She's a year and a half right now, but I feel like if she's going to wake up from a nap, it's going to be at a 45 minute interval.
Julia (03:39)
Yes, you have your own sleep units.
And
are incredible advocates for their kids.
Participant (03:46)
I think that the strength of a special interest and the rumination and perseverance that can come with autism can really be used as a strength in advocacy roles
Julia (03:58)
Yes, I'm so glad you brought that up. Hyperfocus and hyperfixation is an extreme strength when wielded for the focus that is needed.
Participant (04:09)
Definitely.
Julia (04:13)
when you're hyper -focused, especially when you are needing to regulate, it's an incredible, incredible coping skill to just go in the tunnel.
Participant (04:18)
Yes.
Mm -hmm.
Julia (04:24)
It's such a skill and especially if they can share that focus with their kids.
Participant (04:30)
I
Yeah, I think when someone's on a special interest, at least for me, I can learn and retain vast amounts of information very quickly
And that's me like trying to put the brakes on because I know I still have to feed my family and go to work.
Julia (04:49)
literally have now an alarm on my phone at 430 p .m. That says go downstairs because after work sometimes
I go, down the hole.
Participant (05:01)
Yeah, they were down
Yeah, I think special interests have been a big strength, both as a parent, but also professionally.
Are there some common challenges that you hear your autistic clients talk about as it relates to parenting?
Julia (05:18)
One nine percent. I was thinking about this today and really I think it comes down to one word which is chaos.
people hand you a baby and expect you to know what to do with this thing. there's no manual. Like there's these pretty little books that are like, hey, how to parent your one -year -old. And you're like, no, this is not helpful because that does not help me with this one -year -old. I'm doing this thing and it is still doing this thing.
And,
Participant (05:47)
Yes, I find that with sleep books. There are a hundred books on how to get your baby to sleep. I mean, we did eventually find a way and our baby sleeps, but the same way does not work for every baby.
Julia (05:59)
I think that example right there is so frustrating because things happening differently than the way they should. this is something that drives my autistic husband nuts
when you make a plan to go somewhere with your kids and suddenly,
your entire plan that you have made, one thing happens and everything
That to me, I don't know about you, but that thing makes me go into overload
Participant (06:37)
experience the same thing. Being flexible and spontaneous and adaptable in the moment is not a strong suit of mine and I do not enjoy it. And there are very few outings that go according to plan with a toddler.
Julia (06:53)
especially, I say like five and younger, expect the unexpected and for everything to go wrong because it It gets better. No, it gets, yes, it gets better, but it also gets different.
Participant (07:10)
Which is another thing that I think can be challenging as an autistic parent is that just when I feel like I have mastered something, she's into the next stage and everything changes. And what worked two weeks ago, now she hates.
Julia (07:24)
So yeah, chaos is the thing, which then brings about the next thing, which is sensory overload, Like they're always touching me. And then they tend to also like, why are your hands always wet?
and sticky. And then there's that pitch of crying or screaming that is just that pitch.
That one is the thing that I think my parents complain about the most is that ongoing pitch or being over touched also.
whenever they have something cleaned up because it makes them feel organized and calm, Then like 30 seconds later, the tornado has suddenly appeared in their home quietly.
and without any warning and the entire house has been destroyed again.
those are the big ones, honestly. It reduces down to chaos. It's just kind of like everything is unpredictable. Everything is loud. And not having breaks
not being able to have a place to escape to, to be alone and quiet is hard.
Participant (08:45)
Yeah. Do you have any resources or tips or tricks that your parents have found helpful over the years of therapy?
Julia (08:55)
I feel like I should be some kind of product rep at this point for the amount of times that I have recommended this. I am a strong proponent and user of loops, the earbud things.
Participant (09:09)
I just got my first loops a month ago. My sister bought them for me and sent me and I now have three pairs so that they can live in my car and my house and my bedroom honestly most of the time when my daughter's home because it takes everything down a few decibels.
Julia (09:25)
Yeah, and that's really like just that much. I'll speak for me. Just those few decibels just takes like if you are like a rock with sharp edges of sensoriness, just kind of like sandpapers the edge a little bit.
Participant (09:43)
Mm -hmm.
I also think it helps with the little background noises like I notice when our air conditioning kicks on or off or when the fridge kicks on or or we go to play at the park and I can hear the neighbor three blocks away mowing their lawn and it drives me can tune those little background sounds so that way at least I'm not having to deal with those all day. I'm only having to deal with the screaming toddler.
Julia (10:08)
does. Yes. Yes.
Participant (10:09)
but it helps
Julia (10:10)
Because I work with a lot of ADHD clients talked to them about getting the
the granny attachment that goes around the back of the neck. looks just like what you would attach glasses to if you had readers. Yeah, they're little, they just attach the loops so you can wear them around your neck and then they have a little magnet so it stays around your neck and they stay attached. I have saved myself from losing several loops this way because they're not cheap.
Participant (10:24)
Mmm. So that you don't lose them.
Is there anything that you have recommended for autistic parents in terms of managing other aspects of sensory overload? I'm thinking particularly of the touch piece because that's the stage I'm in and it's so hard having a toddler clinging to you all day. And I'm also thinking of parents out there who are still breast or chest feeding and that makes it even harder.
Julia (10:59)
yeah.
Yes, so a lot of touch from littles is that contact piece of wanting to connect in that way. One of the things that I have worked with clients about,
is also making if they have a partner making sure that littles are getting skin to skin time with their partner. So exchanging making that a common normal event so maybe after chestfeeding doing burp time on partner.
Participant (11:40)
Mmm.
Julia (11:51)
So it's a common event that also they get touch time with a partner. making sure that touch is balanced between partner and the person that is just feeding so that that's balanced. When they get older, let's say two and above, one of the things
Participant (12:01)
Mm
Julia (12:18)
that I found that has worked in the past is also encouraging littles to explore their own skin. So like doing self hugs. What does that feel like? And doing that in times where they're not super clingy.
but doing that in times where they are just calm and playing and then doing things like Cosmic Kids Yoga. where they tell a story in this cute little kid's story and then they, along the way, are doing yoga poses that are snuck in there, their clothes. And so the kids are using their bodies in different ways.
and exploring how to move their own bodies. And then if they're using their touch in ways that are not pro -social ways, then encouraging them to change that touch into big gross motor.
usages so being able to go and run up and down the hall or to go climb up and down stairs or using that kind of energy in a productive way
And the last thing I would think too is that touch can also feel like pressure. And so small weighted blankets like a handkerchief sized
that weighs like three pounds that they can put in their lap that's or they have those fun little sleep sacks that are just for older kids that look kind of like a caterpillar cocoon that they can get into and feel snug
can really be helpful for kiddos who need that kind of deep pressure feeling.
Participant (14:04)
Yeah, I could see how sometimes potentially your kid is using your touch to help them regulate because they need that sensory input. And if you can find other ways to give that sensory input, then you can use a weighted blanket and it avoids you getting touched out and they still get that pressure that they need.
Julia (14:22)
especially
Participant (14:22)
even I think I saw a little compression vest too, like I have an adult size compression vest, but they do make toddler size ones. And I had thought about that for when Juniper is a little bit older, if she likes that same pressure that I do, she might benefit from something like that as well.
Julia (14:29)
They do.
And they have those swings too that are kind of slingy like, you know, that stretchy kind of almost those are nice too. But the great thing too is making sure that you balance it for when you do have the capital to use physical touch do.
as long as you feel like you have the space to physically touch your child do. Use these tools when you're like, I cannot engage in this way. Here are the tools we're gonna use.
Participant (15:12)
I know a suggestion that I've heard is thinking about it like a bank account, that when you have the reserve, you can fill up your child's bank account with touch. And then that way, instead of you waiting for them to kind of call the shots, you can be more in control of when the touch happens. And I know for me, that's easier. Like we're still breastfeeding. And it's easier now that she's 18 months, I dictate when we feed.
Julia (15:22)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Hmm.
Participant (15:40)
versus her dictating and it's easier for me because I know that it's coming versus being caught off guard with her kind of interrupting me to want to feed. And so I could see that with touch too. There are times when I have the energy and I really like get down and snuggle and she loves it. And then that helps her later in the day when I'm burnt out, she's already gotten some touch from me and I'm able to pass her off to dad and you know, she's okay.
Do you have any last like piece that you want to talk about that you think would be interesting or helpful to add?
Julia (16:15)
I kind of have one more tool to use alongside loops is doing parallel work with kids.
one of the things I've really been working with clients about is creating the similar task for the kiddo to do at the same time. Example being a person is trying to fold the laundry and kiddo is being nutso.
in the laundry room at the same time. Okay, great. Parent fold laundry and then have a standby small basket of dish towels that you don't need folded in any sort of way.
give that to your kiddo and say, will you please help me with these towels? And then they're left next to you to do whatever they want with these dish towels while you fold clothes. Or when you need to load or unload dishes or wash dishes in the sink, then they have their own plates that they are loading in these plastic plates.
Participant (17:11)
Mm -hmm.
Julia (17:23)
that they are loading or unloading from the dishwasher themselves, that you need them to take them and put them somewhere one at a time to keep them busy. So giving them the kind of move one piece of sand from here to there kind of thing that still gives them some feeling of I am helping here because I'm doing the same thing as my parent is doing.
Participant (17:45)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, I've seen that work with Juniper when we're cooking dinner and she has her little play kitchen and she'll cook something while I'm cooking. Or with the dishwasher, I usually have her do the silverware. while I empty all the glass dishes, she empties the silverware because you can drop silverware and not break them.
Julia (18:06)
Yeah.
Participant (18:06)
and it keeps her busy for three minutes while I empty the dishwasher instead of me holding a baby on one hip and trying to empty the dishwasher with another hand.
Julia (18:14)
Yeah, so helpful, so helpful. And it limits that kind of frustration of I need to get this task done and my kiddo is doing whatever it is they're doing that conflicts with me being able to complete this task.
Participant (18:20)
Mm -hmm.
Have you had parents use carriers? one thing I've been trying is carrying my toddler on my back. And that is a lot less sensory stimulation than holding her in my arms, because she's not like touching my face. And she can just be busy on my back while I cook or like do something around the house.
Julia (18:37)
Yeah.
man.
carriers are so great because it also meets that touch need for your kiddo because they're right there on your back and they get that kind of almost skin to skin contact with you for as long as they and you are comfortable with it. And it also, contains them.
Participant (18:55)
Yep.
Yep.
Julia (19:11)
baby wearing is fantastic, especially when they're old enough to be on your back.
Participant (19:15)
I've also noticed I like the compression of the baby carrier, like it's tight on my waist and tight on me and that's actually regulating for me too.
And I like the pressure of her on my back. So the same way that I would use my compression vest carrying her in the carrier is kind of like wearing a weighted compression vest. And so it's like a win -win.
Julia (19:36)
This was, She's getting touch from you and you are also getting self -regulation at the same time and getting tasks done. Wow.
Participant (19:46)
Yeah, yeah, it's
Julia (19:47)
They didn't put that in a how to parent your two year old manual or book.
Participant (19:52)
No, I've read several books on parenting toddlers and yeah, they all have good ideas and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, but you can do a lot of reading and still feel like you kind of have no idea what you're doing.
Julia (20:06)
No, and we don't live in villages anymore, which is, you know, where we came from, right?
Participant (20:12)
would have been surrounded by other people who had older children who were all helping you with how to raise your child. And you wouldn't spend all day alone with your children. I just don't have the bandwidth to spend 24 seven with a toddler and like it. I would lose my last marble.
Julia (20:18)
Right. Right.
Participant (20:32)
And if we were in villages, you wouldn't be expected to, you know, that the childcare would be really dispersed between different people. And so that's been helpful for me to remember that it's not even just an autism thing that I can't spend 24 seven with my kid. That's just a human thing. And we weren't really designed to spend 24 seven with our kids.
Julia (20:50)
Yeah. No, it's unnatural. And like, I recall when my kiddo was very young and I was a stay at home mom up until probably age one, I was still a stay at home mom, but I was so burned out by the end of the day. Did not know I was autistic again. But my husband would come home from work and immediately I would get in my car and drive.
for like an hour blasting my radio and just either screaming or crying or just being because I had to leave the house,
Participant (21:26)
it sounds like part of that dysregulated, like a flight reaction, like I need to run away and then maybe a bit of a meltdown at times. I need to scream and like punch the steering wheel for a minute.
Julia (21:29)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely had some like rage music going on some great evidence. Evanescence I recall which was just right up my alley at that point. Yeah.
Participant (21:43)
Yep.
Yep, I started taking kickboxing classes, we got a punching bag. I've ran a lot more sprints in the last year and a half than I ever did before. I'm like, literally, I want to run away. Let me put on my running shoes and channel this into some good exercise.
Julia (21:57)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that like, especially new moms, they seem to either combust or create some kind of new hobby Or they become like really, really fit.
As far as final resources go there are three that I Use or refer to all the time number one is neurodivergent insights calm
Participant (22:25)
Mm -hmm.
Julia (22:37)
lots of really insightful information there about a lot of neurodivergent diagnoses and she does delightful Venn diagrams which for me are like candy. one of her things is Miss Diagnosis Monday
Because a lot of people who are neurodivergent have been diagnosed incorrectly prior. Very commonly, I have someone coming in who is clearly autistic, either formally diagnosed or self -diagnosed. And they have been diagnosed in the past with
Participant (22:59)
Yes.
Julia (23:14)
personality disorder like borderline personality disorder is so common. She puts out misdiagnosis Monday and you can look at all these diagnoses and compare them to other diagnoses
Participant (23:17)
Mm -hmm.
Julia (23:28)
the others
website I love is Embracing Autism. People can go there and take a lot of the same screenings that are used in an actual formal autism diagnosis assessment. A lot of really fun assessments too and quizzes.
Participant (23:47)
I've definitely done all of the quizzes that are on there. And I like that they break down all the statistics too, because I want to know what is the accuracy of these different assessments, which ones have really good statistical significance, and which ones are fun, but maybe not as accurate.
Julia (24:05)
Yes, I love that too. And also they talk about autism as a wheel instead of a spectrum. So instead of it being from,
Low support needs to high support needs and having it be kind of like a one to ten thing it talks about the different things that we need
in that chunk of the pie, it will go high or low. And then there's a whole bunch of different parts of our autistic experience.
Participant (24:35)
So your wheel might be spiky. There are some areas that you have a lot of needs and other parts of the wheel that don't affect you as much versus that makes sense because say, you know, maybe in terms of sensory overload on that one to 10 line, you might be a 10, but in terms of social anxiety and social cues, you might be a two. So then where do you put you on a one to 10?
Julia (24:38)
Yes. Yes, exactly.
Yeah, So like saying that someone is high support needs may completely miss the mark because perhaps they are exceptionally low support needs in one area, but in another area, they may need
accommodations.
I guess the last one is the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, which is where autistic people come together and discuss what are the issues facing us right now. And the basic message for them is nothing about us without us.
making sure that laws and guidelines and ADA requirements and things like that are being followed and that laws are being put in place that are protecting those who are marginalized, vulnerable, and oppressed people
Participant (25:49)
I will put those all in the show notes so that people have access to those resources. And I'll have to check out the Self Advocacy Network. I've been on their site briefly, but I want to do a deeper dive. I also had just discovered the Neurodivergent Insights website that you mentioned. They also do a podcast.
Well, thanks so much for agreeing to be on the show. It was fun doing an interview and I look forward to doing some more interview episodes and accumulating different people's insights and perspectives.
Julia (26:18)
Yeah, I think it's gonna be really exciting to hear different parents and their experiences with parenting while autistic and then also parenting while autistic and having autistic
Participant (26:34)
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